Saturday Squee Post: God Complex

[rabiya-al-basri.livejournal.com]

Since randomgirl666 didn't do it, I will.

Please post your reactions and comments here. Spoilers in comments, obviously.

Comments

[rabiya-al-basri.livejournal.com]

I actually really liked this episode, despite my earlier comments disparaging 'fear itself' episodes as a general rule. Though, obvs, that wasn't exactly the real premise.

I liked the ending, and yet... it seemed a bit disingenuous. The room with young Amy--wouldn't that be the Doctor's room, not hers? And if so, he had his own faith to lose. And Amy also had faith in Rory--faith it would've been heartbreaking to have to break. Though, in fact, she still believes in him at the end, it didn't really feel like he broke her faith *that* much, not beyond repair certainly--if they were going to do that they'd've needed to allot more time for it, and pull out bigger guns.

WHICH THEY HAD WTF. The ending of the last episode!! How the Doctor tricked her and lied to her and abandoned her future self, the self that had suffered so much terrible pain and effectively died saving her. And who was way badass--one kind of wonders at his real reason for abandoning her being feeling threatened by her. Even if it was at a certain level necessary, that felt like an almost unforgivable betrayal, and I'd certainly buy it as breaking her faith enough to a)kill the faith-feeder, and b)be willing to let him leave her on earth at the end. Done well, it could've been a devastating ending.

He could also bring up their failure to rescue River, and him letting her down that way, though that wouldn't be as intense a thing. Or tell her what he did to Jack (stranding him on Satellite 5 etc) or especially to Donna (which, again, was just this side of unforgivable, even though Amy never knew her).

Also, theory: the Doctor's room had Amy as a young girl because the thing he fears is ruining her life, and his faith is in her/her love for him. So telling her these things in the hopes of ruining her faith in him didn't so much as extinguish her faith as his--that when it started to work even a little, he started to believe not only that she didn't love him anymore, but that it hardly took a nudge for her to lose faith in him, that her adoration and faith was groundless--and *that* loss of faith was what killed the faith-beast. Which would explain the lack of need for the big guns of the end of last episode. (Obvs, the Watsonian explanation, the Doylian explanation being that this episode was written without knowledge of what happened last week. Still, sloppy. :( )

In truth, though, I really did like that what the monster fed on was faith, in how people having to confront their fears made them turn to what they believe in and focus on it with all their hearts--it was a really good subversion of the overdone the-enemy-is-fear-itself/your-own-nightmares trope, and it lends itself to a truly tragic ending--I'm just sad they pulled their punches on it.

[randomgirl666.livejournal.com]

I felt there was more that could have been said here on the subject of companions and what happens to them in the Doctor's company. I can understand why Amy's room would have her younger self sitting around waiting for the Doctor in it, whereas the Doctor's perhaps might have had those broken bodies (as mentioned towards the end) in it.

But it did seem a little TOO easy to kill off Amy's faith in him. Perhaps this is because she already realises on some level, but needs to hear it from someone else? There must have been some part of Amy that's been thinking about her older self and the loss of Melody, and the fact that these things wouldn't have happened without the Doctor. Maybe all it needed was for someone to point out the common thread? Faith is illogical, after all, it can survive a certain amount of vague questioning, but if God was to actually tell you "I don't give a shit," that would be somewhat harder to ignore.

[hilandmum.livejournal.com]

And Amy also had faith in Rory--faith it would've been heartbreaking to have to break.

This is what I was thinking. Rory's the one who waited 2000 years, Rory's the one who came looking for last week, and when she was at Demon's Run, she told Melody that a warrior was going to come for them meaning Rory. She has reason to have faith in him much more than in the Doctor. In fact, I think her greatest fear is that people will leave her. This goes back to the beginning of her contact with the Doctor who tells her he'll be back and she says, "People are always saying that." Yes, on some level she believes in him, but that faith has been tested time and again.

Mum

[randomgirl666.livejournal.com]

But isn't part of faith the fact that it's a little bit illogical? If Amy has trust in Rory, that completely makes sense, he's definitely earned it. Whereas Amy's faith in the Doctor is based on slightly shaky grounds - he's already left her as a child, ensured that she doesn't get to raise her daughter, effectively killed an older version of herself... in a way Amy's relationship with the Doctor is much more based on faith than her relationship with Rory, because there are plenty of logical reasons to question it.

[rabiya-al-basri.livejournal.com]

I disagree with that interpretation of "faith," though it's possible the episode authors were thinking along that line. And you have to admit that her faith in him in A Good Man Goes To War definitely crosses the line from 'rational interpretation of available fact' to 'belief.'

And there are logical reasons to question Rory, though very different. The biggest one: he can die. Yeah, yeah, I know, the Doctor died supposedly for realz at the beginning of the season, but we all know that's not gonna stay that way. Whereas Rory died in a much more meaningful way last season. And: he's pretty much incompetent without the Doctor around to do things like operate the TARDIS. (I suppose Rory and River could team up, but still--Rory can't do hardly anything on his own.) And: he fell for the Doctor's trick in TGWW, and ultimately he was complicit in killing badass!Amy (and we saw him kind of reject her advances, which would be actually kind of heartbreaking/insecurity-raising for a younger self to see (will you still want me when I'm 64? If I get tough and competent?) Yeah he was kind of in a double bind, one could just as easily judge him for *anything* he did in that situation, but even so.).

I'd agree that she doesn't have as much built up angst/breaking-of-faith-potential with Rory, but that would've only made it more devastating to end the episode by breaking her faith in both of them. I guess I should just accept that DW isn't a character drama and deal, but I keep thinking about how Fullmetal Alchemist or Persona 3 would handle them if they'd been directing and wishing DW had their courage.

[randomgirl666.livejournal.com]

All very true, but if Amy's expectations of Rory aren't as high as her expectations of the Doctor, then he has less room to fail to live up to them, I suppose.

And the fact that Rory can't do any of those things is in his favour when it comes to his inability to let Amy down. She couldn't very well expect him to pilot the TARDIS or save her in every situation where the Doctor potentially could. I suppose Rory is someone she trusts whereas the Doctor is someone she has (had) almost infallible faith in.

[rabiya-al-basri.livejournal.com]

Fair enough. It is hard for me to really believe her faith in him is that badly broken, though--as you said, it was too easy.

[randomgirl666.livejournal.com]

I did do one, but I did it quite late and in a moment of epic stupidity, I managed to post it on my personal journal instead of here. Re-posting my comment from there:

"Solid" is the word I'd use to describe it. Might have expected a few more scares given the nature of the episode and of course it's a rip-off that we don't see the Doctor's biggest fear (not that I thought we would).

But yes, overall there was a lot to like. Especially the ending and particularly the Doctor's acknowledgement of what actually happens to the his companions in the end. This is an interesting theme in new Who... some writers emphasising how brilliant it is having the Doctor in your life and others emphasising the inevitable fallout. Something I might do a mid-week discussion on in a few days...

[hilandmum.livejournal.com]

it's a rip-off that we don't see the Doctor's biggest fear (not that I thought we would).

And did we ever get to see Rory's biggest fear?

Mum

[rabiya-al-basri.livejournal.com]

I still maintain that we did (the Doctor's, I mean).

[loolaa.livejournal.com]

I thought that they were in the Doctors room with little Amy because the Do not Disturb sign he put on his door fell to the floor when the alien died.
But I was also in doubt because to me it seemed disappointing that little Amy (or what she represented regarding maybe all companions) was his worse fear.
But I suppose maybe it was his worst fear *at that time*. Next season his worst fear will probably be different.

[rabiya-al-basri.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure it was the writers' intent for it to have been the Doctor's room, but I'm deciding it was because in my head it makes the episode better. Though I suppose if the rooms aren't meant to be your biggest fear but instead the thing that brings out your faith (of which worst fear is a prominent but not sole possibility), I guess her younger self makes sense.

I guess I am just frustrated with this episode because it was really good but it could've been devastatingly great, and that's almost worse than a mediocre episode that could only have been mediocre, you know? I mean, a situation in which the characters had to lose faith in each other to survive--for setting up tragedy, that's one of the best premises ever. But ultimately, as implemented, it was only sad, not heartbreaking.

But...the more I think about it, the more it makes sense (for it to have been Eleven's room, not Amy's). Had the Doctor figured out that it was faith yet? I think so, or he must've at least suspected? If he'd figured out what he had to do to save everyone, then facing young Amy--the one person who didn't make him feel horribly guilty for the voice interface to take on in LHK, the one person whose life he hadn't fucked up (yet)--to have to face her and remove *her* faith in him would be terrible indeed, no? And from that moment in LHK, it seemed as though he was more afraid of facing the guilt over screwing up his companions than he was of dying--and equally afraid of losing the last person who still believed in him.

(I haven't really forgiven the Doctor for what he did last episode (TGWW), and that really colors how I see this episode (where that goes completely unmentioned).)

[loolaa.livejournal.com]

This is my favourite episode from this half of the season. It was mysterious, a wee bit scary, it had depth and great characters. I really took to Rita and would have been insanely happy if she got to be a companion. Obviously it wasn't meant to be, but I was half way to setting up a Rita fanclub as I watched.
Disliked Walliam's character intensely, but I was probably supposed to.

I didn't find it disappointing that we didn't see in the Doctor's room. It would probably be contradicted in eight seasons time. It's better to keep up the mystery with the Doctor. I'd hate to know his biggest fear, or anything else like that. Best that it's hinted at.

Oddly I really liked Rory in this episode. If he'd been like this in all of them I would have liked him a good deal more. He made me laugh about three times, which he's never done.

[heintz57.livejournal.com]

I found tons of goodness that fueled my theories if you want to read head over to my journal

http://flydye8.livejournal.com/68315.html